Saving clone revisited

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davidh
Posts: 835
Joined: June 9th, 2009, 2:16 am

Saving clone revisited

Post by davidh »

There still seems to be an issue with not saving all cloning in some cases.

Let's have this simplified scenario:
Set Mode to Darken Only, Cursors to Fixed
1. Clone sourcing from area A with somewhat higher transparency to create an area B as a target. Such as extending a shadow or a cloud or whatever.
2. Now you want to enlarge the area B even more, but this time you use the area B itself as a source and do the cloning.
3. Click OK and reopen the Clone transformation. The extended part of the cloning sourced from area B is gone.
The same happens when you save and reload the script.

It seems that cloning sourced from area that was itself cloned is preserved only in memory which makes it visible in the preview. However is cleared the moment the Clone transformation is reopened or the script is reloaded.
jsachs
Posts: 4203
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 11:03 pm

Re: Saving clone revisited

Post by jsachs »

I was able to reproduce this, but only by setting Recycle to No. Will check it out more fully later. If you can, please post a screen shot of your Clone dialog box or post a script file so I can see all your settings.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
davidh
Posts: 835
Joined: June 9th, 2009, 2:16 am

Re: Saving clone revisited

Post by davidh »

You are right. I checked the Recycle setting and it says No as a default. I must somehow have set it as my default long time ago. It must have been by mistake as I have never paid attention to the botom three controls so far, not even do I use Brush.
Only after I reset all settings, did Yes jump in as the "factory" default.
Setting Yes is clearly my option for future as I need to do exactly what it says in Help: If you select Yes, the clone tool can feed back on itself and repeat parts of the image multiple times since it is copying copies of the source area over itself.

As regards setting "No", though I now change to "Yes", I am still a bit confused about what it does.

If you still need a printscreen, I can provide it. However, following are all combinations I mostly use:

My other setting are mostly "the factory" ones:
various sliders adjustments and brush shapes
Mode: mostly Darken Only or Lighten only
Cursors: Mostly Fixed
All other settings: default

Now, talking about brush shapes. I sometimes encountered a situation when Round and Square buttons did not correspond with the cursor shape. It just needed to re-switch. I would not have mentioned it as a separate post.
jsachs
Posts: 4203
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 11:03 pm

Re: Saving clone revisited

Post by jsachs »

The effect of the Recycle setting has to do with whether previous or the current version of the output image is used as the source image.

Recycle Yes -- in this case the source image is the output image. When the source and target areas overlap, depending on the direction you are cloning, in some cases it creates a feedback loop that replicates part of the image repeatedly since it is re-copying part of the image that was just copied.

Recycle No -- in this case the source image data is taken from a copy of the output image made just before starting the current stroke and thus no feedback is possible -- instead of repeating part of the image, it is simply shifted in the direction you clone.

It looks like the Recycle No setting is working when you do the actual cloning but is not being applied correctly when you re-open the transformation. I think I have found the problem for the next release.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
davidh
Posts: 835
Joined: June 9th, 2009, 2:16 am

Re: Saving clone revisited

Post by davidh »

It is not just when you re-open the transformation. If you save the workspace script, close it and reload it, you can see it already in the thumbnail - no need to re-open the transformation. It Iooks as if it is not saved in the script at all.



In an attempt to better understand the difference I created this scenario:

I painted part of an image white.

Image 1
Recycle = No
First clone made to the painted area.

Image 2
Recycle = No
Cloned back including a white background circle. Clicked OK.

Image 3
Recycle = No
Reopening the transformation (or saving, closing, reloading the workspace script, without reopening the transformation.)
The lamp was removed but the white background from the painting step was preserved.

What is the right behaviour here?


Image 4
Recycle = No
When the painting step was removed, the white background replaced with the real background before it was painted white.

Image 5
Recycle set to Yes, paint step removed.
This time both the lamp and the narrow background circle are preseerved.


Just out of curiosity. I cannot think of any practical usage for the option Recycle = No. Could you, when time allows it, provide a simple example demonstrating a difference between the two options in the Help or a .pdf file?
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