Negative Feedback On Ver 8

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Johnmagyar
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Joined: December 6th, 2021, 7:53 pm

Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by Johnmagyar »

I started with PWP version 4, and sadly thought version 7.20 was the end. I was pleased to just discover PWP is still alive, however, my joy was short lived. I hope I have missed something in my quick trial.

I just explored using the Composite Transformation, something I use a lot with 7.20. I was immediately frustrated by the general lack of freedom to use the screen space at will. Often I use several images open at once, at different magnifications and different window sizes. With this new version it seems I am forced to work in only one specific way. A particular annoyance was the inability to have precise control when positioning an overlay largely away from the target. It had to be made very small to keep its handle available, which gave little control. I can imagine there will be a similar problem with precision cropping, which I often do to the nearest pixel when working with masks.

Please return our freedom to use the workspace as we wish, as it was in 7.2. There are things that look attractive in version 8, but until that happens version 8 is a no-go for me.
jsachs
Posts: 3528
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 11:03 pm

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by jsachs »

Sorry it is not working for you.

With regard to Composite, Crop and other transformations that have overlays, you can position the alignment points as with PWP 7. The underlying image can be zoomed and scrolled at any time in several ways -- you can zoom in or out using the zoom tool bar just above the image or by holding down the Alt key and using the mouse scroll wheel. This second method zooms in centered on the cursor location. You can scroll using the scroll bars or by holding down the Alt key and clicking and dragging the image. In the absence of an overlay, you can zoom and scroll without the Alt key, but it is necessary to tell PWP whether you are editing the overlay or scrolling. Once zoomed in, as a shortcut, you can use the number keys to scroll the corresponding alignment point into view quickly. For Composite, you can alternate between displaying the base or overlay image using the tool bar at the top of the transformation dialog box.

While there are times that keeping several windows open at once is more convenient, there is also the inconvenience of having to constantly re-arrange them and windows being obscured. The image browser in PWP 8 organizes all your processing steps, makes it easy to switch between images and, more importantly, records all your operations so you can come back later and modify any step in the processing. This is the really big advantage of PWP 8 -- I often rework images some time after the initial processing and making a proof print, and the ability to go back and change a step in the middle of the process is invaluable. In PWP 7, once you save the image, reworking it differently means trying to remember everything you did to it.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
Johnmagyar
Posts: 2
Joined: December 6th, 2021, 7:53 pm

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by Johnmagyar »

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and that you recognize the convenience I refereed to.. Your articles have been a help to me over the years. I will give it a more thorough look and see if it works for me after all.
Marpel
Posts: 591
Joined: September 13th, 2009, 3:19 pm
What is the make/model of your primary camera?: Nikon D810
Location: Port Coquitlam, British Columbia

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by Marpel »

I will admit that I also had some difficulty moving from Ver 7 to 8, as the whole process/layout was so different. I also regularly had multiple images open at one time, in different sizes, scattered about the workspace. Because I had used the program through various iterations, leading up to ver 7, I was comfortable with that system.

And one of the things which I also struggled with, as explained in John's post, is the ability to Composite an area from the Overlay image when using 1 point alignment, especially, as an extreme example, if the area in the Overlay image is in the lower right and it needs to be placed in the upper left of the resultant image, and in particular if that area is quite small. One has to zoom way out to keep the alignment point in view on the screen, which makes it difficult to accurately place that area. It requires zooming in to view/assess then out to access the alignment point. This often takes multiple operations of zoom in/out.

Having said all that, I would suggest to John to keep trying ver 8, as the positives far outweigh any negatives. The new process takes time to understand and wrap your mind around the completely different concept and environment.

For example, to mitigate the alignment issue, I will place the comped are in close proximity to the desired location, while zoomed out, then zoom in to the area in the preview and use the 4 arrow keys in the dialogue to move the area in small increments until properly positioned. This takes a bit longer but the accuracy is precise. However, I have the luxury of dual monitors, and have moved the dialogue boxes and browser onto a second monitor so my workspace is uncluttered and full monitor size. YMMV.

And one of the, big, benefits of this program is the unmatched support from this forum. I know of no other program where you can ask a question and get an almost immediate response from the program's designer.

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Marpel
Posts: 591
Joined: September 13th, 2009, 3:19 pm
What is the make/model of your primary camera?: Nikon D810
Location: Port Coquitlam, British Columbia

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by Marpel »

In adding comments to this thread, I started thinking about the "old days".

This is hazy in my mind , so I can't recall the steps, but I used to move the alignment point over the exact spot in the Overlay image, then move a corresponding alignment point in the "preview" image, which would drag the spot/area in the Overlay that one wished to be comped. That method ensured the alignment point was always within the image so one could zoom in to any degree and precisely place the comped area. I used to do this all the time.

Is this impossible to initiate in ver 8??

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jsachs
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Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 11:03 pm

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by jsachs »

I am a little unclear about the scenario that places alignment points end up way outside the image -- can you give me an example?
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
Marpel
Posts: 591
Joined: September 13th, 2009, 3:19 pm
What is the make/model of your primary camera?: Nikon D810
Location: Port Coquitlam, British Columbia

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by Marpel »

Just tried to run through this again, and it seems there is a difference in whether the Composite Dialogue is clicked or the Composite icon is clicked in the Browser Window, However:

Two images - Image 1, Image 2.
Composite > Make Image 1 main image and Image 2 the Overlay image.
Create Mask for Overlay image (draw an area in lower right corner).
Alignment > 1-point (shift).
Click on Browser thumbnail of Composite (Image 1)
A bounding box will appear around the left image, with an alignment point in lower left corner.
To move the masked area to the upper left of the Preview Image, the alignment point has to be moved over (away from the image) which requires the image(s) to be shrunk.

Again, there was confusion on my part as to whether the Composite Dialogue is clicked or the Browser thumbnail is clicked, before moving the alignment point, so hopefully I got it right in these instructions (I had to do it a few times before I got it (semi)straight in my head).

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jsachs
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Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 11:03 pm

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by jsachs »

I think the easiest way to avoid having to shrink the base image is to first position the alignment point in the overlay image at or near the area selected by the overlay mask. Next, position the alignment point in the base image to where you want the masked part of the overlay to appear.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
Marpel
Posts: 591
Joined: September 13th, 2009, 3:19 pm
What is the make/model of your primary camera?: Nikon D810
Location: Port Coquitlam, British Columbia

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by Marpel »

Think I may have figured out where, for me at least, the confusion lies. And it seems to be associated to which order things are clicked (activated).

If I don't click on the dialogue box prior to clicking on the Browser thumbnail, the Overlay image shows a bounding box and the alignment point at the lower left corner (which you then have to move away from the image to move the masked area to it's intended location). At least I think that may be part/all of the issue.

I think the problem arises with the number of locations, and their order, that one has to click on prior to actually moving the masked area, depending on which method the user is trying to follow.

I read the Help file but found it a bit confusing - not because it is poorly written, but more because all the options and methods are significant and difficult to master. And the portion - "Unless alignment is set to None, labelled alignment points are displayed over the input and overlay images." seems to suggest points should be visible on both images in side by side modes, but I have only seen a point on the Input image.

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jsachs
Posts: 3528
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 11:03 pm

Re: Negative Feedback On Ver 8

Post by jsachs »

>> I read the Help file but found it a bit confusing - not because it is poorly written, but more because all the options and methods are significant and difficult to master. And the portion - "Unless alignment is set to None, labelled alignment points are displayed over the input and overlay images." seems to suggest points should be visible on both images in side by side modes, but I have only seen a point on the Input image.

In side by side mode you get either the base (input) image on the left and the output image on the right or you get the overlay image on the left and the output image on the right -- so there is no way to get the base (input) image on the left and the overlay image on the right. The easiest way to switch between the base and overlay images is with the In/Ov toolbar at the top of the dialog box.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
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