| Author | Message | ||
     Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 72 Registered: 04-2003 |
I've just seen this paper about making matte effects on paper as one prints - thus saving lots of cutting card, etc. http://www.outbackphoto.com/portfoliowork/pw_25/essay.html Has anyone tried to do this with PW? Rgds Tony | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
One rainy afternoon sometime ago, I got to wondering what a series of images would look like showcased on different walls with a spot light, so in PWP I made up a template and series of associated masks... With the template and masks and PWP's Composite transform, I am able to change texture, color, and shadows of the walls and mats as well change the showcased images.... The template:  Example 1 & Example 2:   I have since at various times created templates for virtual mats so that any 8x10, 5x7, or 4x6 ratioed image can be printed on an 8.5"x11" photo paper for direct mounting into a 8.5"x11" frame. | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Sorry... let's try this again!!!!...... One rainy afternoon sometime ago, I got to wondering what a series of images would look like showcased on different walls with a spot light, so in PWP I made up a template and series of associated masks... With the template and masks and PWP's Composite transform, I am able to change texture, color, and shadows of the walls and mats as well change the showcased images.... The template:  Example 1 & Example 2:   I have since at various times created templates for virtual mats so that any 8x10, 5x7, or 4x6 ratioed image can be printed on an 8.5"x11" photo paper for direct mounting into a 8.5"x11" frame. | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Jonathan... pls delete one of these two previous posts...thx! | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 73 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, That's precisely the idea. Could you do one of your papers on the stages when you have another rainy afternoon, please. (Still working on your three stage tone range info sheets. Clever stuff.) Rgds Tony | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
While I made my templates from scratch... if one had a copying stand, you could take a photo of a matte assembly; convert it to gray scale; re-scale/re-size as needed; add appropriate shadows/shadings, and make appropriate masks.... and you are there! | ||
| Thomas Bailey New member Username: Thomas_bailey Post Number: 55 Registered: 02-2004 |
I'm surprised this has not become a major, high priority request to PWP for a future version. It is such a professional and attractive way to display images as they are shared with family, friends, associate, etc. Attractive frames was a key factor in my choice of a hosting site for my image files. I hope these fine examples raise the priority level on Jonathan's list. I know there are 'Actions' for this purpose on PS, but the ones I perused were not so easy to run. Thank-you, Tom B. | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
One of the things to keep in mind here is that any PWP workflow or other stand alone software that provides virtual mattes and frames will involve re-sizing/re-scaling/re-sampling when printed to standard size photo paper. Hopefully this re-sizing/re-scaling/re-sampling is done on the template based upon the pixel dimensions of the image to be displayed.... not on the template pixel dimensions and the image re-sized/re-scaled/re-sampled to fit the template. If I use virtual matte/frame templates, the workflow is such that any display image+matte/frame re-sizing/re-scaling/re-sampling needed to fit the photo paper size is done by the printer driver. For display on a monitor or posting on the net... the basis for re-sizing/re-scaling/re-sampling is not so important.... ....but for a gallery quality print, it is. | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 74 Registered: 04-2003 |
". It is such a professional and attractive way to display images as they are shared with family, friends, associate, etc. Attractive frames was a key factor in my choice of a hosting site for my image files." Totally agree. You can do something like this in Qimage, but it cannot handle multiple border lines. I managed a drop shadow and I also did a single line - but after that the system could not cope. Tony | ||
| Dieter Mayr New member Username: Dieter_mayr Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 |
Den, did u make ur frames in PWP ? I was inspired by your posting and tried myself, but i didnt find a way to align the partial images i did for the frame exactly center on center. The problem, as i see, is not only the exact alignment of the single images for the frame, bit also for positioning the photo in the frame, exactly. Would be very kind of you, den, when u could describe how u did it . Dieter | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Dieter.... Yes, everything shown was done in PWP. I started with a "New" white image and built the template from the inside out. After getting the toning and texture for the matte and frame areas, using the Mask tool I did the drop shadows and then using the gradient transform I did the shading and the spot light... I took photos of some interior walls in my home for the wall backgrounds and used the filter transform to color the matte areas.... The display image was then added.... yes it would be nice if PWP had an auto-centering feature but I used Window->Grid and just added enough gridlines to get approximate even matte margins while using Composite-Blend-1 Point (shift) or 2 Point (shift-rotate-scale) to add the display image. If there is interest here, I can make the template and mask set available... | ||
| Dieter Mayr New member Username: Dieter_mayr Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2004 |
Den Thank you very much for information I have just given it a short test, and it works very well:  I have found out a good method to get the image and frames centered. First i made a picture of the desired size, here 5 * 7 inches, in full black. I placed it with Layout Transformation in exactly the center of a DIN A4 page, and i have my first mask. The border was made to simple increase the frame in the Layout, 6 mm in each direction, center it again, and voila, i have a nice 3mm frame, exactly centered. This can be done several times of course, to create more complex frames/ mattes, The Picture itself i placed with layout in the center of a page, and then simply add it with Composite ( Filter ). No alignment is neccesary there, coz all pictures and frames are exactly centered via Layout. Thank you for the great idea, Den. Dieter | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Dieter... Excellant suggestion to let the Layout transform do the centering.... I still wish sometimes that the alignment options of composite offered an "Auto-center" feature.... Here is another suggestion for mattes..... Starting with the image, add borders outward and at the same time generate a corresponding mask.... Use the Emboss and Blurr transforms, followed by Filter to add color and add Noise (to add realism). This followed by another add Border series for the matte utilizing Filter to add color and texture.....  Actually using your suggestion, you could make the light colored textured matte the Layout's background... and then add the image plus its dark border/drop shadows... | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 75 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, I've printed this as a basis for some experiments this weekend. Where I know I will get stuck is in creating shadows to make the simulation of the matte cut edge look convincing. Can you be a bit more explicit, please. Tony | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Tony.... It was raining this morning so I did take the time to detail things out a bit more.... the following workflow link has a narrower dark border width than previously illustrated. It is real diffcult to miter corners..... so I sometimes make things less obvious unless closely observed.... see: http://www.ncplus.net/~birchbay/mattes/matte1.htm . Most of the time, this process is too tedious and I just end up doing a very mild and wide drop shadow between the display image and background image.... and call it good! | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 76 Registered: 04-2003 |
Thanks Den, Rain has its benefits for us students. Tony | ||
| Dieter Mayr New member Username: Dieter_mayr Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 |
Den, thanks for that workflow I played a bit around with it, today. It works nice, but its not really my style. Just one question: in Phase A, 2. you say to set margins to -2. How is this done ? I find no way to set margins to negative numbers. Thanks Dieter | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Dieter... Thanks for the comment. The 'minus 2' is an error and has been corrected. There really is no substitute for the real thing!!! | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 90 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, Oh, the joy of having some time to print for pleasure and not for customers! Tuesday evening I worked through your Three Tone system. Last night the matte mounts. Your web site work plan, as you say, is aimed at producing quite a complex, but relatively narrow, matte area. Do you have any suggestions as to what paramaters to change and which to cut out to produce results more like those at the top of this thread. I have yet to master how to post images on to this forum so I'll try to describe the effect I'd start to create. I'd use A4 paper. The photograph image would be 6" by 8". I'd have an effect half an inch outside the photo that simulated the cut edge of a mount. Another half inch outside that I'd have a line either in black or picking out a tone from the image. It's a fairly conventional way of mounting used in the UK. The image has half an inch of white paper showing and then the mount, which in real life might be about 1/4 inch thick has a pen line drawn on it. I'll do some fiddling myself, but if you are sheltering from the rain and looking for a challenge I'd be fascinated at how you'd go for the solution. Tony | ||
| Sandra Rogers New member Username: Shortperson Post Number: 50 Registered: 07-2003 |
Tony, in your post you mentioned something that has struck my curiosity. Since you said you do prints for customers, you are much more "in" the field than I am with photos as a hobby or having my background in conventional darkroom. You said you have an image that is 6" by 8". Since the introduction of digital cameras and printing, is it becoming common place to not print at "standard" sizes 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, etc.? Is there a standard anymore? Thank you, Sandy | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Tony.... is this what you had in mind? http://www.ncplus.net/~birchbay/mattes/matte2.htm I may redo this with narrower bevels.... | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 91 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, Very much what I was looking for. Maybe the bevels are a bit heavy. But that is the concept. Sandy. I'll reply tomorrow. It's getting towards dinner time in the UK and I've a few other things I need to do afterwards. Kind regards to you both. Tony | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Tony.... I added another matte example to: http://www.ncplus.net/~birchbay/mattes/matte2.htm | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 92 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, Looking at both on the larger screen in my office (last night I was on the laptop in my dressing room that doubles as a study) I'd opt for the top one. I don't think it is over-the-top and if one is depicting a mount then why not make it obvious. Will you be able to share your secret for me to experiment with over the weekend? Tony | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 93 Registered: 04-2003 |
Sandy, I see you live in New Mexico. I live in London, in case you had not spotted it. I'd describe myself as a professional photographer although it is not my living. I take lots of pictures at a local social and sports club. When people ask me for prints I ask them what size they'd like and nine times out of ten they say 'seven by five'. If I offer then a 'ten by eight' they have a picture in their mind what it will look like. I have a friend who is starting an acting career late in life and he keeps asking for 'another set of ten by eights for my agent'. A 'six by four' means nothing until I tell them it's like a postcard. But 'a postcard size print' they understand. The reason why I mentioned 6" by 8" is because I have a stock of presentation folders for that size and for the few cents that they cost they really enhance the perceived value of the finished print. On the other hand I never get asked for 'a six by eight' as that is not what people ordered when their snaps were processed by the local chemist. Just as, over here, despite the protestations of the EU in Brussels, we go on buying pints of milk and pounds of tomatoes, I am sure we'll go on supplying ten eights for actors and seven by fives to go on the mantlepiece. All of which is a total menace for anyone who prides themselves at creating the perfect composition for a 1 to 1.5 ratio frame!! Tony | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
Tony... I added a couple of more examples to http://www.ncplus.net/~birchbay/mattes/matte2.htm No. 3 is a duplicate of that posted on the web site you originally referred too... No. 4 is really my preferred way to present a print.... I find the virtual cut mattes too distracting. I can make the No.1 template and a set of masks available but will need a little bit of time to figure out the best way to do that... will let you know... | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 94 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, You could be right in saying that No 4 is actually preferable. I tinkered with Drop Shadows and in fact there is a way of doing them 'automatically' if you use Qimage. The advantage of the Q route is that the system works for any size or ratio of image. The disadvantage is that it does not allow you to put a textured outer on which to place your image. How do you create your textured outer as in No4? Having said that I'd be keen to experiment with the No 1 version as it might work well in a frame. Tony | ||
| David J. Bookbinder New member Username: Dbookbinder Post Number: 123 Registered: 09-2002 |
I've been following this discussion with some interest because I am a lousy matte cutter. However, I'm wondering how anyone using virtual mattes and framing the prints gets around the problem of the print sticking to the glass. Preventing this is probably the main reason I use mattes in the first place. - David | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
File downloads and a guide for the Example 1 Matte can be found here: http://www.ncplus.net/~birchbay/mattes/matte3.htm . Because of limiting servor storage, it may not be possible to keep the the large master template file uploaded.... but it should be available for at least the next two weeks.... Creating a Textured Background image, Bckgrd1….. 1. Create a ‘New” image of desired pixel dimensions and pastel color, Image1. 2. Choose a ‘texture’ image and ‘Tile’ it horizontally and vertically to exceed the pixel dimensions of Image1, then crop it to the exact Image1 dimensions, creating Txtr1. 3. Using the Composite transform, Filter Method where Input = Image1, Input Mask = Txtr1, white = 0, black = 100, & Overlay = Txtr1. Adjust the Overlay Amount as desired, usually around 10->35%, click OK creating Bckgrd1. [The illustration image used 12.5%] Note: ‘Texture’ images are available on DL-C’s download page. The illustrated image used DL-C’s ‘Random 1.tif’.  Once you have a background image, you can always change the Display image with the Layout or Composite transforms.... I keep a folder of favorite background images with assoiciated masks that already have color, texture, and drop shadow that are suitable for the Layout or Composite-Blend transform of 4x6, 5x7, or 8x10 ratioed display images so it hardly takes any time at all to make this type of image presentation. | ||
| Sandra Rogers New member Username: Shortperson Post Number: 51 Registered: 07-2003 |
Tony, thank you for responding to my question. The folks who respond on this message board are from all over the world. I tend to forget to look where someone is from. My mind runs of just learning from the experts that post here taking full advantage of the shared knowledge. Also, I have a curiosity about everything so I JUST ask questions to whomever has stated something that has struck my curiosity. Even in the crop menu of PWP there is quite the selection of sizes. That too made me wonder if the old standards still held. In a conventional darkroom the option of size was available but the standards were strictly adhered to. You have told me that they still do. Thank you, Sandy | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 95 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, Thanks for that hard work. Will give it a try later. David. Is not the answer to your question to mount the print on a backboard and to introduce an invisible to the eye matte between the frame and the print. This matte needs not be a work of art as it will not be seen, but it will create the separation you need. Tony | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 96 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, Am I right in thinking that using the PW size controls you/we could alter the ratio of that template to, say, 1 to 1.5? Yes, I realise the masks would also need to be altered, but I'm guessing it's all a question of maths! Tony | ||
| den Unregistered guest |
If you use PWP's Resize transform to change the template's outer dimemsion, you will also alter the W/H proportions of the outer Bevel inward... It is best to Crop with the existing dimensions, ie, 2300x2700 to 1800x2700 [1:1.5] or use the Tile transform and then Crop if you wanted to expand from 2300x2700 to 2300x3450 [1:1.5]. While there is some texture [2%] in the matte's flat areas, the Tile transform will seamlessly match any expansion joins..... The deciding factor is what is the narrowest margin you want past the outer Bevel and then change outer template dimensions accordingly. The template as downloaded is scaled to 200 ppi and has 2" margins around the outer Bevel. and yes.... anything you do to the template, has to be done to the masks..... | ||
| Tony Gamble New member Username: Tonygamble Post Number: 97 Registered: 04-2003 |
Den, Just to report in total sucess at following your instructions. To those of you who follow on, please resist the temptation to use all Den's bells and whistles and over accentuate your bevels and colour. It will be fun, but almost certainly paper consigned to the waste bin. KISS and it'll be easier on the eye. Tony | ||
| George OReilly New member Username: Goreilly Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2003 |
Boy you quirked my interest Den ! Thank you for all your hard work.I am sure that a lot of us will benefit Thanks again. G. OReilly |
