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meow
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Username: Meow

Post Number: 34
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 02:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

I hope this kind of questions isn't too off-topic here (please tell me if that's the case!) but I thought I'd pick your brains about what screen to buy.

I've fallen in love with LaCie's electronblueIV.
http://lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10037 .
I have a (crappy) 17" now and was thinking I would regret if I choose just one step larger so I've been aiming for the 22".

Then I read this article at photonet where they say:
"Most people assume bigger is better. It isn't. Look over the specs carefully. You'll notice that smaller monitors are significantly sharper than larger monitors. Seventeen-inch to 19-inch monitors offer the best compromise between sharpness and screen area."
http://www.photo.net/digital/computers

So... Does anyone have experience of or opinions about the electronblue screens in general? (I'm not printing but spend all days in front of the screen and want good picture quality both for photo work and for the sake of my eyes.)

Is the photonet article correct in that the 22" would be the poorer choice? The prices where I live are almost twice the US prices so in a way that article was welcome...

The article implies I can see from the specs how sharp a screen is. Is the dot pitch what I'm looking for here? In that case they might be right because it's the same for both screens.

TIA
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 43
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Unlike alot of computer hardware purchases, the monitor is a very subjective decision. Meaning you really have to actually see it to determine whether it suits your needs. I would add that while 17-19" monitors might look better the choice still comes down to what you need. If having a 22" monitor is more important than get the 22" monitor.
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Depending on how much you want to spend I would look at the following options:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_Display ProductInformation-Start;sid=p1hPnatniPdP1-sSWE9FluRpkrsznRj9PDw=?CategoryName=cpu_Displays_CRT&ProductS KU=GDMC520K&Dept=cpu


That article on choosing hardware was written over two years ago. That's a long time in computer years. You may want to seriously consider an LCD monitor.

http://www.sharpsystems.com/products/lcd_monitors/18-20_inch/ll-t1820/


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Edward
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Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Sharper is more complicated than pixels per inch. Working distance is an issue, plus how those pixels are spread out - and whether you have perfect eyes. With perfect eyes and a perfect monitor, it is the total pixels that matter. With imperfect eyes it is a lot easier to see 1200 x 1600 on a bigger monitor 6 or 8 inches farther away - if you have the room. I have the 19 LaCie, which is GREAT!. I would love the 22, but did not have the money or the room.
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Jonathan Sachs
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1583
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Bear in mind that large CRT monitors are huge, very heavy, and give off a lot of heat. I have become converted to LCD monitors in the last year or two since better ones have become available. You can now get LCD monitors in the same effective screen size and a big CRT since a 22" monitor doesn't really have a 22" image diagonal.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
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Bob Sheldon
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Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Jonathan,

Have you found any LCD monitors, other than the Sharp LL-T1820, that you recommend for photo processing? The Sharp is still a bit pricey.
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Jonathan Sachs
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 1585
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I haven't been in the market for an LCD so I haven't been tracking them. Unfortunately the reviews in the computer magazines generally don't address issues like color gamut.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 45
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I would also bear in mind that LCD monitors are weak compared to CRT's when displaying very dark shades of colors.
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Jonathan Sachs
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 1592
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 07:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

This is a little misleading. While LCD monitors do not have as dark a black, the whites are much brighter. Unless you are using your monitor in a really dark room, you will get better contrast with an LCD monitor.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 47
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 12:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

http://www.displaymate.com/crts.html

http://www.displaymate.com/lcds.html

http://www.displaymate.com/crtvslcd.html

Please understand that the above is only one sites opinion. I also believe them to be incorrect on some of the gamma/gray scale information. I know for a fact that certain lcds can display more than 256 levels of gray.
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 48
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 01:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Here are some more sites that discuss the issue. I attempted to find the latest information.

http://www.vartechsystems.com/pressroom/aprnewsletter2003/crt-lcd-comparison.htm

http://www.techmind.org/lcd/
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Jonathan Sachs
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1593
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 06:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

There was a very interesting paper in a technical journal that discussed this issue in some detail, but I don't have a reference handy.
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
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John Lodge
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ray, in saying that "certain lcds can display more than 256 levels of gray" you would need 10 bit DVI which is in the specs of the DVI adapter but has not been implemented in existing lcds, to my knowledge. Or you would need analog with a 10 bit graphics adapter.

Otherwise what you may mean is that some of the DVI lcds have 10bit digital to analog converters in the LCD supported by 10bit lookup tables in the LCD. That is the lookup table carries 10 bits on the output side and compensates for more nonlinearity in the LCD response than is usual. The result is still no more than 256 shades of grey; but 256 well calibrated shades of grey!
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 50
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 10:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Do CRT's provide any of those functions?
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John Lodge
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Not a relevent question. The grey transfer function is more ragged with LCD's and needs help that CRT's do not. But as a matter of fact the Matrox adapters are have 3x10bit cluts.

Don't get me wrong LCD's are the future. But just now, as CRTs slide into oblivion they are still a better deal. As the LCDs compete against each other I expect to see the addon function to improve LCD's added at very little extra cost (which is not the case now the Eizo LCD's are quite expensive).

The issue is how to get across the next 24months or so without too much pain. There is probably yet another function and standards morase to be traversed. Today's quality LCD (from a photography point of view only) are almost undoubtedly tomorrow's boat anchor.
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 52
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 09:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

"Today's quality LCD (from a photography point of view only) are almost undoubtedly tomorrow's boat anchor"

That's true of almost all technology. Especially hardware.
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John Lodge
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Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

True indeed but at this time of transition it will be especially true.

Again with the present bargain basement prices of quality CRT's it will almost certainly cost less to buy today's CRT followed by tomorrows LCD than to get today's high end LCD.
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James Hallett
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Username: Jhallett

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 07:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Last week I purchased the Sharp LL-T2020, it is the 20" version of the 1820 which other folks on the message board have found to render images well. I am still setting the monitor up; I realized that my digital diplay adapter did not support 1600x1200 resolution, so I am awaiting the arrival of a Matrox P750 card. Both card and monitor will support 10 bit gamma correction. But even running the monitor in analog mode at 1600x1200, I am seeing colors and detail in my images that are nothing short of remarkable.
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Bill Ross
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Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

James, what were you using before?
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James Hallett
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Username: Jhallett

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Bill, I was using a pair of 15" NEC LCDs. They were awful, as you might expect from 6 year old budget LCDs (I say budget, but I think they were about $1,200 each 6 years ago!). The old adapter card was a Matrox G550.
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 11:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

If you don't mind me asking. How much did you spend for the 2020?
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James Hallett
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Username: Jhallett

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 07:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

It was $1,499 - expensive I know, but I think it was worth it. Its warranteed for 3 years. Here's a link to it on the Sharp Store front: http://store.sharpsystems.com/product.asp?sku=2315570
And a link on the main Sharp USA page http://www.sharpsystems.com/products/lcd_monitors/18-20_inch/ll-t2020/
The Sharp store also sells reconditioned 1820's, but they only have 90 days warranty.
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J Kroner
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

John Lodge wrote: "...with the present bargain basement prices of quality CRT's it will almost certainly cost less to buy today's CRT followed by tomorrows LCD..."
I did just that. I bought a refurbished CRT (viewsonic p220f) at under 30% of the new price from one year ago, including an extended warrranty (bringing it to two years).
Lots of companies are discarding clean, new, high-end CRTs in order to gain desk space, reduce cooling load. Great prices for great monitors.
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meow
New member
Username: Meow

Post Number: 36
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Thanks all for your input. Gave me some things to think about and check up. I'm certain I want a CRT though. Can't help it, I'm just not comfortable with LCDs.

Edward, if I get the 22" I'll be sure to let you know! ;-)
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Ray Milewski
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Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 63
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 12:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

If you do get the lacie be sure to let us know where and for how much. I have been checking around on those monitors and they seem to be hard to find in regular stores.
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meow
New member
Username: Meow

Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 12:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Sure will. But if I get one it will most likely be in Stockholm and I guess there's an ocean between us or at least a border or two...

The monitors are extremely hard to find here too. A tip is to try Mac shops. LaCie is popular in the Mac crowd.
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Anonymous
 
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I notice www.inkjetgoodies.com is now selling LaCie monitors.
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Ray Milewski
New member
Username: Rmilewsk

Post Number: 65
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2004 - 12:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

There's quite a few places selling them online. However, it is difficlut for me to actually see the output of the monitor online.

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