| Author | Message | |||||||
     Dom Savage New member Username: Gouezeri Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2003 |
First, a recommendation for the guys from DL&C. How about an area of the web pages for people to share settings used in PWP? These could then possibly be adapted/perfected and included in the official releases. Anyway, down to my question, I've just started applying tints to some b+w shots I've scanned and wondered whether anybody had any recommendations or tint (*.cln) files to share (particularly sepia and selenium type effects)? Regards Dom | |||||||
| david willecke Unregistered guest |
Dom, I have been playing with tinting black and white photos in PWP for some time and have developed a handful of really good files developed. I posted an message similar to yours about 6 months ago and Johnathan offered to share/post tinting files at that point, but nobody expressed any interest. I am still interested in doing that. As far as creating tint files, here is one great method that I use. I have favorite photographers and I take images from their books and scan them on a flatbead. I then use the monochrome transformation to create a black and white photo from the scanned, tinted photo, and then I develop a tint file that reproduces the same affect when applied to the black and white version. I then save that file along with the title of the picture I took it from, then I can apply it to an image whenever I want. So far the results have been fabulous. I have also been amazed at the variety of sepia/thiocarbamide tones I can generate--almost every image is really unique. If sharing tint files is an akward thing to do over this message board, I suppose e-mail would also work. I came into this with a fair amount of traditional darkroom experience and moved to the computer because of access and time issues--I miss the darkroom, but have found I can get similar results and get them a hell of a lot quicker on the computer. David | |||||||
| Dom Savage New member Username: Gouezeri Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2003 |
David, Thanks for the reply. One of the reasons I'm looking to apply tints is to try and produce more and more varied, neutral prints with an epson 1290s that I've calibrated using GreyBalancer (creates a tint file itself). So Jonathan, is there any chance of being able to share this information here, or shall David and I just correspond privately? Of course, any results I might have with tint files I'd be more than happy to pass back for PWP users as a whole. regards Dom | |||||||
| Jonathan Sachs Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 1087 Registered: 08-2002 |
I'm still on vacation for another week, but if you email be your cln files to me after December 1, I will figure out some way to post them in the download area. Jonathan Sachs Digital Light & Color | |||||||
| Dom Savage New member Username: Gouezeri Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2003 |
Dear David, It seems that interest for this is weak as this thread seems to have died out. However, I would be extremely grateful for any tint files you would be happy to share with me privately via my email (click on my name or profile for my email address) and I'd be happy to share any changes modifications or discoveries I might make. Thanks in advance Dom | |||||||
| Jonathan Sachs Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 1106 Registered: 08-2002 |
I am back from vacation and willing to post cln files. I have a few of my own to add to the collection. Jonathan Sachs Digital Light & Color | |||||||
| David Willecke Unregistered guest |
Dom, I am hoping to find time to get those .cln files uploaded soon, but it will likely be tuesday afternoon before I have to go through and pick them out. Johnathan, thanks for offering to start a post for them, I am anxious to see what other people have done! | |||||||
| David Willecke Unregistered guest |
Johnathan, Dom, others, here are the .cln files I have developed so far. As I mentioned previously, these are taken from images by Eddie Ephramaums, in his book Creative Elements, and the files are named after the images who's tint they are designed to reproduce. For most of the images I have found it impossible to create an exact match, I am assuming because the originals were the product of a chemical process. When this is the case I have created 2 files, each which simulates a different part of the image accurately. I have also found that they have very different effects on my own images, despite being subtly different on the originals. I would love to discuss all these issues more, but for now I will just attach the files. David
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| den Unregistered guest |
David... thank you for taking the time to post your files. I did not realize there could be the range of control points needed to simulate the tint profile(s). You have obviously taken considerable time and study to develop them. 1. When you apply these tints.. what is value of "amount" in the tint tranform? 2. When you convert from color to monochrome initially, do you have a favorite filter color? I know that these are case by case questions... but I was wondering if you had a favorite starting point for generating your monchrome images. For example... I will generally use a red filter in the monochrome transform to bring out clouds in landscapes and will then usually tint with one control point at mid-tone (RGB= 14.9, 16.5, 15.3 or 27.1, 27.8, 27.5) and amount= 50%). | |||||||
| johnn Unregistered guest |
I really didn't care sepias until I tried David's .clns. A couple of them are fantastic. Here are two more non-sepias, and does anyone have cyanotypes? Den, see the end of this post starting with 'WITH'. I got it from Jonathan sometime ago. Colorline 1.0 ncolors 5 color 0 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 transition 0 line rgb color 1 0.09737 0.13529 0.08784 0.06902 transition 1 line rgb color 2 0.25687 0.26314 0.23686 0.27059 transition 2 line rgb color 3 0.32301 0.31529 0.30000 0.35373 transition 3 line rgb color 4 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 end Colorline 1.0 ncolors 5 color 0 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 transition 0 line rgb color 1 0.2248 0.0863 0.2627 0.3255 transition 1 line rgb color 2 0.4588 0.3137 0.5020 0.5608 transition 2 line rgb color 3 0.6902 0.5490 0.7333 0.7882 transition 3 line rgb color 4 0.9948 0.9961 0.9961 0.9922 end WITH a little work and a calculator, you can do this manually as CLN files are just text files that you can edit by hand. First use the readout tool to sample the color of your reference image in different parts of the brightness scale from the darkest shadows though the midtones to the lightest highlights. Record the RGB values for each measurement and sort them from the darkest to the lightest. Sample at least 5 different points to get a good range of values. A 5-point color line file might look like this: Colorline 1.0 ncolors 5 color 0 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 transition 0 line rgb color 1 0.2201 0.2196 0.1804 0.1412 transition 1 line rgb color 2 0.4556 0.4627 0.4000 0.3255 transition 2 line rgb color 3 0.7336 0.7333 0.6784 0.5647 transition 3 line rgb color 4 1.0000 1.0000 0.9098 0.8078 end For each control point on the color line, there is a line in the file that starts with "color" and is followed by 5 numbers -- the first one simply numbers the control point. The next one gives the gray level that the control point corresponds to (this corresponds to the horizontal position on the color line) scaled so the 0.0 means black and 1.0 means white. The last three numbers are the color to change that gray level to as RGB values also scaled from 0.0 to 1.0. Using the tabulated color values you measured, you can compute color line values as follows: 1) Compute the gray value by averaging the measured RGB values (and dividing by 255). 2) Use the measured RGB values as the last three values for each control point (and divide by 255). Once you are done, save the file and it should work. You can then make adjustments to it using the Tint transformation. Make sure if you add control points that you adjust the ncolors line to reflect the actual number of control points. | |||||||
| Jonathan Sachs Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 1131 Registered: 08-2002 |
I have posted a collection of cln files (under PW Downloads on the web site). If you have more, please email them to me and I will update the collection. Jonathan Sachs Digital Light & Color | |||||||
| den Unregistered guest |
johnn -- the mist begins to lift -- thank you. Would you welcome contact outside this forum. If so, my email address is birch_bay@hotmail.NoSPAM.com without the "NoSPAM"? Use the subject "Tints". There is an "underscore" stroke between birch and bay, i.e., birch_bay. This will get you past my filters. Johathan Sacks - you may not realize how your program appeals to the engineer in me. As with music, creative digital color and images have a vast variety yet are mathmatically structured. This kind of structure and control never was available when as a high school student, I did B+W pics with chemicals, timers, enlargers, etc. This was a time of B.C. -- Before Computers! | |||||||
| David Unregistered guest |
Den, I apply tints with the amount at 100%. I am actually often starting with a scan from a black and white negative, not converting from color. Increasingly, however, I shoot color and convert it in PWP because I seem to get better scan results and I like having the option of extracting channels, especially the red one (I carry less filters in the field and less film). I prefer to work the entire image to my satisfaction and then apply tinting after the fact, as you would do in a traidtional darkroom (which is where I am coming from). As far as creating the color files, other than the stuff I have already mentioned in this thread, I have found it works better to not move the control points left and right, this redistributes the tones in the image. I simply add control points first, 2 or 3 more, and then assign colors to each. The reason I ended up working with so many points is that I found the digital process to affect highlights and shadows much more significantly than chemical toning, which is particularly weak in effecting blacks. Having two control points near each end allows me to stop the color chosen in the middle control point from having that strong impact. Finally, I have made a chart on a piece of paper with the square color wheel like PWP uses and noted the values around it. I always work the color lines in HSV, which I find much more intuitive that RGB--I just can't look at a tinted image and see the color as a combination of red, green, and blue. Hue and saturation makes more sense to me, especially with a handy color wheen with #s around the outside. I would love to hear how other people go about this... Johnn, I'm glad the files have sparked some interest in sepia. I strongly recommend taking a look at Eddie Ephraums book Creative Elements to see some of the best sepia stuff for landscapes--I wasn't very into toning (or grain) until I saw that work! David | |||||||
| den Unregistered guest |
David ... thank you. Your explanation is clear and I understand. Do you in your normal tinting when not simulating "old" chemical processing still limit color toward the end points? It would seem to me that by doing this you are stepping backwards in not realizing the full capability of the digital process, although I suspect that there may be an artistic consideration involved. Are any of your images posted on the web? | |||||||
| David Willecke Unregistered guest |
Here are some images that I think illustrate what my goals have been with the digital tinting. 1 of the images is a scan of the eddie ephraums image Rannoch Moore on which I based 2 of the uploaded color line files. For comparison is an image of my own that has a similar style, both a strickly black and white version and one with the tint applied. Hopefully this will spark some more discussion on these issues!    |
Rannoch Moor Thiocarbamide v1